"If science fiction is the mythology of modern technology, then its myth is tragic. " (Ursula LeGuin)
Thanks for joining the class. This is one of the places where we can better get to know each other, and I want to remind you that the requirement is to add at least two comments each week to the blog. Challenge us; make us think; question us; push us if you want. More to the point, push yourself. We're pretty marvelous machines when pushed, as the marathoners know.
I'll start us off: Why do you think science fiction and fantasy writing "don't get no respect"? Why should it?
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Clark College Science Fiction class with Nancy Thompson
This class...
CBS Mystery Theatre - "The Outsider" (H.P. Lovecraft)
Weekly Top Ten: This week, animation
- Electric Earthquake
- The Underground World
- Dodo in Japan
- The Hole
- Duck and Cover
- Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
- My Neighbor Totoro
- Mulan
- The Corpse Bride
- Yellow Submarine
59 comments:
One reason science fiction doesn't get much respect is the fact that it's such a relatively new genre. With general fiction, there's a HUGE body of high-quality, classic work- when dealing with the classics, time has weeded out most of the crap.
It doesn't get much more modern than scifi and fantasy, which in turn means a lot of the chaff is still floating around in circulation. The more chaff is around, the more likely it is someone making an opinion on scifi/fantasy will think it's garbage.
Obviously there are a lot of other reasons people might dislike/like scifi and fantasy. Just helping you start things off.
in my opinion the reason sci-fi and fantasy don't get respect is that they are sometimes so contrary to real life that they cannot be believed
One of the reasons may be that the average "normal" person doesn't find science fiction or fantasy to be as accessible as other genres. They may be reluctant to throw themselves into completely made up realities and find it hard to relate to characters who exist in a reality so far from our own.
I love Harry Potter ans Star Wars. I wish that I could go to Hogwarts.
Other genre of books seem to focus on human behavior and the "normal" way things are in the world. Science fiction and fantasy are seen by people as weird technologies or too fantaical for people to believe that normal human behavior or ideas are still existing in these types of books. SciFi and fantasy books are seen as childish because magic and aliens and the whole deal is suppose to be what children believe in and wants we reach and age in are lives parents stop us from believing in such things.
One other reason is that you get writers like the late Robert Jordan who takes five pages to get out of a room, or George R.R. Martin who has a five book trilogy and has to put a sex scene in every fifty pages
Amanda, I wish that I could go to Hogwarts too, but more importantly, what is it about the world of Hogwarts that makes readers want to go there? What appeals to us? Especially since, if we think about it, it's not really such a happy place, is it?
So, hmm. Westerns get a rap as formulaic genre fiction. So do romances (bodice rippers, as they used to be known in the trade). Do you think sci fi and fantasy is just another genre fiction? Is it somehow "better than" the others?
As people above have stated, I would agree the reason the genres don't receive much respect is because most people feel that they can't relate to science fiction or fantasy due to their unrealistic settings.
As for living in hogwarts...I think we, as people, have a natural tendency to want what we don't (or can't) have--or to simply experience something new. I've often wondered if we were born and raised in hogwarts and then read about the wonders of "America" as a fantasy world if we'd dream if living the lives we do now.
I think the low disposition of science fiction and fantasy stems from the state of the reader's ego. Some don't like to venture too far outside of reality. Those who do enjoy science fiction and fantasy would have to agree that it is a great way to get out of the now and put yourself wherever the author intends, whether it be in a medieval time, with magic and dragons, or an alternate dimension, four-hundred years into the future. That's one of the beauties of it.
I agree with what most people have already stated... SciFi and Fantasy probably get less respect from a lot of people because it is unrealistic and strays from what people find as "normal" and real. It also may challenge people's beliefs, which can intimidate and steer people away from the genre. I think it would help if people came to terms with the fact that that is what SciFi/Fantasy writers are trying to do. It's not realistic, and it's not meant to be. It's different, but that doesn't mean it's right or wrong, or deserves less respect than any other genre of writing.
personally- except for l. rn hubbard (who used science fiction as a basis for and excuse to create a religious dynasty) sci fi writers and their craft deserve respect and get it.
I have to agree with most of what I've read so far, but I'd like to touch on something that was hinted at, but not expanded on. Sci-Fi and Fantasy pushes against people's religious beliefs. Take Harry Potter as an example since we're already discussing that. There was a huge outburst about the witchcraft side of things, and how just reading it would force you into hell. A lot of people won't read it because it challenges their very belief about life, and not even just in hugely obviously fictional books like the Harry Potter series, but in others where the subtle, darker side of human nature is something they simply refuse to believe in and discount as general trash, not worth reading.
it may just be that people have believe that it just the genre for the nerdy (this doesn't feel like the right word). maybe people are afraid that there peers may think they're of the same breed. after class today (wed 9/24) I've realized that my science fiction experience is not as small as i thought (thought still fairly small), i just didn't realize i was reading this genera. its def one i enjoy, i just didn't know were to get started.
I always imagined reading as an escape from the day to day reality, so it's almost funny to think that someone would stay away from science fiction because it might be too far removed from reality.
I think sci-fi deserves respect just as much as other genres because there are some great books out there, not only books with great entertainment value, but books that take a look at what it is to be human, what it is to be human in a reality that includes alien species, what it is to be human in a world vastly populated with robots and AIs, or even what it is to be human in a future where everyone undergoes radical plastic surgery on their 16th birthday as in Scott Westerfeld's "Uglies" trilogy.
-James
Sci-Fi to me is something i've always overlooked. I havent been one to read many books, and the books I have enjoyed reading all lean towards fantasy or scifi. And then i got to thinking more about SciFi and realized I love the sci fi channel. So if I can use these types of books I could possibly unlock a whole new respect for reading. This 1/4 should be a lot of fun.
I think that Science Fiction and Fantasy writing probably don't get much respect because most people in the world tend to want to focus on reality and don't want to totally rely hope on ideas that may be impossible to achieve. However, Sci-Fi/Fantasy often tends to reflect on what the world's dreams, hopes, concerns, worries, or even improvements that need to be made. I think that if people tend to look more into the storylines of Sci-Fi/Fantasy works, they may begin to see parallels with "reality" and realize what needs to be changed to achieve whatever is needed to be done.
My response to the Hogwarts discussion is that I believe Hogwarts interests us because, I think, the way the classes are portrayed seem to be fun and exciting and something that many of us would be quite interested in taking. In a lot of ways, I suppose it's how High School classes differ from College classes. The classes that students take in High School are often required, and often do not relate to students' interests. However, in college, most classes tend to follow the student's interests, even if at times it is quite a tangent from whatever major area they are going after. Furthermore, Hogwarts might seem appealing because we might have this crazy idea that we want to go to class with many of the Hogwarts students (i.e. Potter, Weasleys, Granger, etc., etc.) or have some of the Hogwarts professors teach us (i.e. McGonagall, Snape [there are a few among us who like him... :)], Hagrid, etc., etc.).
Hogwarts may have not been exactly the "happiest place" (but isn't that title already taken by Disneyland? ^.^;), but part of that may have been contributed by the fact that Voldemort was around. Who knows whether the future Hogwarts would be the same as it was in the Harry Potter series or not. That, I belive, can be left for intrepretation for all Harry Potter fans.
Another random question - which Hogwarts house would you be in (Gryffindor, Hufflepuff, Ravenclaw, Slytherin)? And why? Is it possible that you can tell alot about a person from what house they would be in? Or is it possible that in all of us, we have bits and parts of all of the four houses? Furthermore, do you believe that the four Hogwarts houses tell alot about our society and it's people?
It seems to me that anyone who doesn't regard science fiction and fantasy as a respectable genre doesn't respect the creativity and imagination that goes into writing a sci-fi story. Maybe some people assume that it's not worth reading because they think it has no relevance to the way things truly are in the reality we live in. This assumption of course, would not be entirely true.
i think ashley has a point. maybe those who criticize sci fi as not being respectable should make an honest attempt at writing a story first before disrespecting people who write sci fi-
I think I have to agree with most of what everyone has said. In my opinion, the reason sci fiction and fantasy doesn't get as much respect as it deserves might be because this world of extremely advanced technology seems too far-fetch for anyone to relate with. As many other people have already said, it's hard for someone to truly enjoy a story if they feel like there's no connection or realistic fact to it.
As for the comment about those who don't appreciate sci fi, I do agree that they probably don't have the respect for all the hard work that goes into writing it but it might also be because they don't understand it. I think one of the major reasons why people avoid this genre may be because they can't wrap their minds around what the author is trying to say.
I think this discussion about science fiction being unrealistic is interesting. Let's think about "aliens" for a minute. Sure, extraterrestrials coming to earth might be far out, pun intended, but what about Americans' fears of aliens as in people from other countries? During the Cold War it was the Soviets. Now it's Arab terrorists and Mexican immigrants. Could we argue that the devices in science fiction are just metaphors for what already is?
Oh I totally believe that the genre is based off of current world events. We saw that today with the chronology of science fiction. When the hard times rolled, you started to see the great stories coming out. War of the Worlds, The Blog, so many others, have undertones of the fears/psyche of man during the time period that the books were published. It's great to see how some of the greats took what was going on in the day to day and encrypt it into great story lines and plots.
Sam, I really like this idea about sci fi pushing against religious beliefs. Do you think people resist because they think of science as the antithesis of religion, even though a lot of science fiction has strong themes that connect to religion? (Take, for instance, the story we're reading this week). Do you think that's more true of fantasy than sci fi? What about Christian-themed fantasy?
Christine, I'd like to be in Ravenclaw. I'm not sure the houses say much about society, but the idea of earth, air, fire and water goes back to the Greek classical elements, and the characteristics are part of astrology. For example, Ravenclaws are known for their wisdom, their creativity, their smarts and their wittiness. Air signs are characterized by being "Quick, mental, imaginative, studious, logical, talkative, communicative," as well as all the corresponding negative characteristics (but since I'm an air sign, I'm not telling what they are!).
I think Sci-fi and fantasy doesn't get much respect because there are many people who can't fathom, or create a image of what an author is creating. They either have lack of imagination or when they were younger, imagination was something that set you apart from the status quo.
Yes, I do think that a lot of the respect flies out the window when the stories have a tendency to push against religious beliefs. There are exceptions to every rule of course, such as Christian-based sci-fi and fantasy. We talked in class the other day about how the defition of fantasy included magic, in some form or another. And at least the major christian based religions find even reading these books a sin. Sci-Fi, from what I've read, does have a lot of religious aspects, but this can only be a bad thing when you think about the general intolerance of religions talking or even thinking about one another. If anything I think the religious aspects of Sci-Fi make those books lose more respect.
Erik Cummings, here.
For all man's technology, he possesses a lot of cynicism and disbelief for the extraordinary. He is one who scoffs all too often at the situations that Science Fiction presents.
Still, the technology presented in those stories is the idealized dream of human wants and is often a possibility. By putting those extreme situations with extreme technology, people think about it more and take a closer look at what is going on in the present world. It's like a check and balance, letting the public know the extreme possibility.
In response to the Hogwarts question I too would be a Ravenclaw for my nerdiness, but some of my evil genius ideas are grounds for placement in Slytherin, seriously if you see a big grin on my face run the other way asap or teleport to another dimension, on another tangent does anyone consider manga like naruto and one piece as fantasy? and on the subject of christian scifi the aliens are sometimes fallen angels in disguise, back to my nerd credentials, fo you have any scifi, fantasy, or comic based questions I'm your go-to guy haha
editing from my last post, If you have a scifi, fantasy, comic, or literature related question, I'm your go-to guy haha
I think that there are a few reasons why modern culture is turned off by the Science Fiction world. One I think it is, much like fantasy, harder for people to relate with and even at times understand. When you are dealing with things that are hard to explain or seem out there you are going to have people that are going to check out. Like Philosophy writings, most people can't stand because alot of the time it's confusing, seems outlandish, and often deals with difficult topics that people have already written off. Messages in Science Fiction, I feel, tends to be a little harder to pick out. It's not out front like most works of fiction that deal with modern day problems and a modern day atmosphere. I think people see as to weird and percieve it to be a dreamers world. People look at it as checking out of reality in to far of a fashion. People when they come to a form of entertainment, most people anyway, want to check out but not off to a far away universe where they can't find any relation or understanding. I feel it is unfortunate because I the Science Fiction method can tell us a lot about our own society and possibilities that can happen. Some times it is obsurd what people right, but sometimes we need to hear about the obsurd possibilities to change things.
In case any of you were wondering on what my answer would be for my Hogwarts house question I against earlier - here it is: I personally would like to be in Ravenclaw, for I belive it fits both my personality and the fact that I'm a wise/intelligent girl, and sometimes hesitant to go against or bend any rules to get something done. However, I think there are parts of me that could possibly put me into Gryffindor or even Hufflepuff.
Bryson - in response to your tangent question about manga, I would have to say that it really depends on the manga series and what the storyline is. For Naruto (although I'm not very familiar with everything) I can see where some fantasy aspects could come into play, but I almost think that it may be more of a reflection of the Japanese culture and history of ninjas. Where as the manga/anime series Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon (Pretty Soldier Sailor Moon) has quite a bit of fantasy elements that definitely categorizes it in the fantasy genre (and possibly could fall into science fiction genre as well with some of the elements within it's storyline).
(Sorry, I'm a little late getting on this blogger's band wagon because I couldn't get my Google account to activate.)
I think saying Science Fiction and Fantasy, specifically, don't get as much respect as other more popular genres because of their being unrelatable to real things is interesting. Why not flip that idea? Say that they don't get as much respect because they do relate to real things. H.G. Wells, for a possibly overused example: People thought those broadcasts of The War of the Worlds were incredibly real.
For fantasy, take any of the Harry Potter books. Who wouldn't love to be able to make things levitate? Or to fly on a broom? To have the abilities magic would entitle you have?
I remember churches and school getting up in arms about the Harry Potter Series saying that the readers were idealizing the topics in the book, and using the pictures J.K. masterfully painted of this magical world as a way to relate how they wished their lives could be. Obviously unpopular to some people because the wishfully existent, non-existing world was distracting readers from what the world was actually doing around them.
This is not to say all Harry Potter readers were oblivious and ran around pretending to be wizards (and witches, of course), but from my younger stand point, that was all I heard the grown ups talk about.
"Harry Potter is of the devil!" and so forth.
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READ ME! I'M THE SUMMARY!
Science Fiction and Fantasy aren't as popular because they have the awesome potential of bringing to light worlds and abilities that would have otherwise been passed off as "make believe" and never explored.
Science fiction and fantasy usually features magical aspects or things that push the known limits. People may not respect this because they either have no imagination or are afraid to believe in the possibilities. They don't want to face the idea of "what if". After all, some stories provide a spring board for real science, like how the flip cell phones today look like the communicators of the old Star Trek. Some rich person even worked to change his apartment into a working recreation of the bridge of the Enterprise. People look down on things that make them nervous or threaten change, and science fiction has the power to do that.
Science fiction and fantasy writing should get respect because of the power it can cast over its audience. Romance novels can pull on your emotions and dramas can raise your adrenaline, but science fiction/ fantasy has the ability to do both while transporting you to another world entirely. The genre knock down the walls holding in the other genres and allows anything to happen. Travel back in time, no problem. A hobbit saving the world, why not? The skies not even the limit; the potential is fathomless. Reading these stories leaves the reader believing maybe their dreams aren't so impossible after all.
I think the respect level of scifi is also greatly altered by how spoofs of scifi 'geeks' and movies show them. People might be scared to be stereotyped to be a scifi geek
generally speaking people find, that which could be real to be boring, or they dont really want to know and take the time to find out. In today society people are less likely to sit down and read a book especially a genre that can usually start off slow and build to this huge climax, or one that is willing to go into detail rather than speeding through things. today's youth have gotten away from using their imagination, unless its about something that is improbable and a rush from the beginning. i guess its true when people say that children are always watch, they see us constantly on the go and want to be like us they want to grow up instead of being youthful and full of imagination.
people of today want it yesterday instead of today or tomorrow, to many people have taken what was once great literature and turned them into movies, rather than sitting down and reading and getting the whole picture people would rather watch a movie. a friend of mine was telling me that he has never read an entire book before, he says "why should i waste my time reading when its faster to just get the movie?" well there is a start on my opinion.
I totally agree Goose, about people not wanting to read the book because the movie is so much faster. Todays world is in a rush to do things. People need to take the time to sit down pick up a good book and to let theirselves loose in an unknown world of magic and intense creativity. For one thing the movie NEVER beats the book. A movie cuts off at least half of your creativity. It intserts pictures and sounds, which might have been different if you read the book instead. Which is why we dislike movies over the book. Nothing can compare to the human brain and the way we see things.
I think I'd be pretty good at quidditch!!! =)
I just wanted to make a small side comment to what Nancy said earlier about considering "aliens" as a foreign invasion. I think that not just Americans, but humans in general, tend to fear things they can't control. For example, the thought of having technology going beyond our control might be frightening to some people which is why they avoid this genre. Or the thought that there might be a force so strong that can destroy our world and yet we don't have the power to stop it might scare people as well.
i agree with alisha's comment. people may not give sci-fi and fantasy the respect it deserves is due to it touching on very real things. War, revolution, slavery, and discrimination just to mention a few things that are often themes writers use throughout these two genres.
I'm going to have to disagree with you, argetevarÃnya. There are things that movies are better suited for than books are. The same can be said of comic books, radio dramas, plays and on stage musicals.
I mean, a novelization of a musical would be nothing at all like the actual performance.
Movies can give the audience a real sense of landscape that can be just as effective as a whole page of description. And depending on the actors/actresses, the raw emotion being portrayed in a movie can be much more effective than the same scene being written in a book.
I do agree that most book to big screen translations don't measure up and most of the time just can't measure up to the original, but movies do some things better, and books do some things better.
Also, videogames do some things better too, but that's a discussion for another time :)
Also, I think that Fantasy specifically has a stereotypical dork factor that detours the popularity of the genre.
I think scifi/fantasy isn't much respected because of the facy that it isn't real and people don't use their imaginations as much as they should anymore. It gets dismissed as "make believe" and people forget that some of our greatest works of literature fall within that genre. Heck, the oldest surviving piece of english literature is Beowulf, which falls squarely into our modern definition of fantasy.
I think people are afraid of being called "childish"- as heidig said... because sci-fi is so distorted from reality that most of the time it and fantasy are not nescessarily believable... it is impossible- that technology will over take humanity-because humanity made it with flaws... there's no way that computers will have the complex emotions or cognitive proscesses associated with humanity... Those were my thoughts-Russell true signing off
I think that Science Fiction is a genre that surpasses just normal fiction, if there is such a thing, and challenges us to look at the possiblities of the world's future. However this genre can sometimes go to an extremely unrealistic level because science fiction can be written by just about anyone who has an imagination. This I believe is the reason why many sci-fi writers are not respected and their works are passed off as just one of the hundreds of thousands of sci-fi books that are produced. I think science fiction books get overlooked because of that even if the story has a deep or thought provoking message.
When it comes to fantasy writers I think that the reason they don't get much respect is that they create a world that is completely unrealistic and not easy to relate to because we cannot imagine what we would do if for example: we were told we were wizards or that elves really existed. It's har to grasp However, I thimk that is also what draws in readers. So fantasy, I think, is what people like to read when they don't want to think about reality and want to get lost in a different world. I don't necessarily think that they don't get any respect, in fact, I think that in comparison they get more respect than science fiction because readers admire their imaginations more because it's based on something that never existed in the first place. Which genre out of the two do you think gets more respect?
I think the reason that Science Fiction doesn't get any respect is because it is viewed as childish and not down to earth but it takes so much creativity to make up a world that isn't the same one you have lived in your whole life.
If there wasn't genre's like sci fi and fantasy to bring the imagination to life then writing could never grow and the world would be a boring place to live in.
I enjoy reading Sci-Fi and fantasy books, but I can see why this genre doesn’t receive the respect it deserves. I know many people who can’t relate to these genres or they don’t see the point of going to another world when Earth can be so difficult to live on already. Even I sometimes need reminding of reality. However, despite its reputation and low level of respect, I believe that this genre should get some more respect because everyone needs a break from reality. I think that society wouldn’t be uptight if people took a little time to read this genre to get away. They might find that they enjoy their own little niche in this surprisingly large genre.
Violet - I love the fact that you mentioned about the person changing his apartment into a working recreation of Enterprise's bridge. I grew up watching all of the Star Trek series, so when you mentioned that I had to look further into it. And I absolutely love what they did!
If anyone else wants to see the Star Trek apartment, go to this site for the virtual tours: http://www.24thcid.com/virtual-tour-1.html
Tyler - You mention that you think you would be good at Quidditch. Which position would you be perfect for? And what makes you good for that position, or any Quidditch position in general?
I agree with Brittany's comment above. To a lot of people it is just pointless to venture off into these crazy fantasy worlds where your imagination takes control. A lot of people in this world aren't willing to open up their minds- many for certain reasons of course (or perhaps maybe they're just too busy with their everyday life, and the thought of sitting down and relaxing while reading a good Scifi/Fantasy book just seems too far fetched) But I also think that maybe if more people could find the time or make an effort to read this genre more they might be able to escape from this crazy reality at times, stretching their imagination and exercising their mind. Nothing wrong with that at all, now is there? :)
I was in fifth grade when the first Harry Potter book came out. It was an exciting phenomenon for the general populous and a down right catastrophe for people that had been trying to ban fantasy books for years. I'm glad that alishajudge mentioned this controversy. I have met people that hate HP, they even mentioned a HP book burning...When I asked them why they hate HP, some of them replied, "because there really are black witches that harm people." So I think that the difference between some fantasy and sci-fi lovers compared with the people that completely oppose it is the way we think. Some HP haters actually believe that HP is a reality, and they fear the series. The fans of HP wish that the books are a reality.
I realize that by saying this I am generalizing an awful lot, but I believe that about 100% of the Harry Potter book banning folks have not read any Harry Potter. If they did, they might realize it's all in good fun.
Unfortunately, their beliefs may tell them that just reading the book will send them to an eternity of fire and brimstone.
Is there any way to convince someone religiously opposed to Harry Potter that it's a harmless book?
I grew up reading Heinlein and Asimov. I loved the transformative effect these books provided. This genre challenges the mind to suspend it's logic and allow for the unfathomable to become "real". I find that people get their world-views challenged and that is difficult for them. I wonder if our culture is so caught up in reality (noticed all the reality tv shows in the past few years?) that we are loosing our collective imagination. Sci-fi pushes us to think beyond the here and now, to be "forward-thinkers" and to believe in the unseen/unknown.
Terry Pratchett, a satirical author who relies on or is best known for his fantasy writing, has always been a favorite of mine since middle school.
I think Fantasy has carried a stigma of appealing more to children and those who believe that cite Harry Potter and the like to support this. However, Pratchett puts fantasy in an adult world, reflecting human nature in the stereotypes of a childhood fairy tale. The Witches who grow annoyed when people ask them if they dance in the nuddy around fires and such, the City Watch Corporal who arrests a dragon for Public Mayhem and Loitering with Intent, etc.
In Harry Potter, there is a clear division between the two worlds. In Terry Pratchett, one world shows up in the second world and makes it all interesting while reminding everyone how ridiculous both worlds are.
make believe and fantasy have always leaned more towards being a taboo for adults, its like there is an unwritten law stating that once you reach a certain age you are no longer aloud to use your creativity and imagination and to be childish. certain types of scifi and fantasy have been used to scare little children, or to get them to behave and listen. its kinda like the boogeyman or Santa Claus. the boogeyman is used to scare little kids into going to bed and Santa Claus is used to make children be good, but once you reach a certain age you are told that you are to no longer believe in them. scifi and fantasy have become tools to control our children. also who has the right to decide what we believe in?our society has come to rely on what others think and not what they think or how they are to act and look like. for instance there is peer pressure in school and the work place as to how one will behave or what they will do, there is actors, actresses, models, politicians. all these people set the example as to how we should act how we should dress, what and where we should eat. i mean who are these people to decide for the rest of us how we should be? same goes for what we read,there are people out there that think they should be deciding on when and what we read i mean come on i thought we lived in a country that ruled by a democracy not a country ruled by a dictatorship. we dont want people to decide on what laws we follow so why allow them to control what we read,watch,eat,wear,think, or how we act. now i have a question for all of you. when was the last time any of you did something because you wanted to do it. it hadnt mattered how stupid or insane it was to every one else but you did it cause that is what you wanted to do?
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